Glide
Several years back, my wife and I were in San Francisco visiting our daughter. When Saturday rolled around and we mentioned going to church the next day, she recommended Glide Memorial, where she had been a few times with friends. Well, if you've ever been to San Francisco you know that just about everything there has a pretty liberal feel to it and Glide was no exception. As we sat in church behind a couple of girls with their arms around each other, (I'd guess same-sex couples made up around 10 to 20 percent of the congregation) we felt like a couple of sore thumbs in a large room full of fingers. We're pretty conservative socially, politically, and to my surprise I'm starting to think, religiously. We're used to hearing the Word preached: Sin, repentance, forgiveness, new life, worship. Most of what we heard at Glide was social justice. I have nothing against social justice, but the Knights of Columbus and Kiwanis and Lions clubs could just about be under Glide's umbrella of ministry. I don't think I heard anything about anyone's need for Jesus that day.
I do remember hearing how Glide helps alcoholics break free from their addiction, brings food to the hungry, aid to the handicapped, and acceptance to the GLBT crowd. I thought, "What?!! By that logic, you should be serving alcohol to alcoholics, taking food from the hungry, and crippling the handicapped! It would deliver the same amount of help."
In certain circles, there's a lot of debate over whether we should be focused on our personal relationship with Jesus or loving and serving our neighbor (essentially, Jesus vs social justice). Well I think that's a crazy debate because the answer is so obviously "Both" (Matt 22:37-40).
But as a picture of how far off course Glide has gone, I took this quote from the About Us portion of their website: "In 1967, Cecil [Williams, then-head pastor] ordered the cross removed from the sanctuary, exhorting the congregation instead to celebrate life and living."
Also, from Williams's profile on the site, "His vision for a truly inclusive church has attracted a 10,000 member congregation, an extended family, who reflect the diversity of the world- all races, ages, genders, ethnicities, sexual orientations and religions. What brings this community of people together is the common search for acceptance, spiritual growth, and social justice."
Not sure where the spiritual growth is there. Not sure where the end of this post is either. How about here?
/rant
Labels: glide, homosexuality, religion
posted by DErifter @ 4/28/2008 10:12:00 PM
11 Comments:
I don't see how Christianity remains Christianity in any way when it begins to be so inclusive that it embraces people of other religions to practice those religions within the confines of the "Christian" church.
I've had friends who, biblically speaking, believe that the God does not say homosexuality is a sin. Though I disagree with them on that issue, I at least understand their arguments and know where they're coming from. I can see a church take that stance and still be, in most ways, "evangelical."
But it's a slippery slope after you do that, as I think is shown at Glide. They've gone from trying to reach out to the GLBT crowd to trying to be something to everyone. They no longer represent the radical counter-cultural way of Christ...they just represent the culture.
It saddens me because I'm sure they had good intentions from the start and probably still think they're traversing the right path. But somewhere along the way, tolerance and acceptance became more important than the truth of Scripture.
Man...I'm starting to sound like a fundamentalist. Haha. Oh, well, I've been called a liberal so many times in the past that this may be a welcome break!
I just looked through their website, and I will give them this compliment: they don't seem to be segregated. I applaud their efforts toward racial diversity.
Still, though...
It seems to have devolved into a passionate social club.
Josh the Fundy. Ha! I didn't see that coming.
By the way, I'm not a guy who believes diversity is automatically good. I'm almost sure that this will wind up sounding racist, but I don't think it is. Like "change", diversity CAN be good, but isn't intrinsically good. For example, if I have four round tires on my truck and I change them to triangular tires because I'm convinced they might roll better, I'll soon realize that round tires weren't so bad after all.
In regard to diversity, we are by all means called to bring the gospel to every tribe, tongue and nation. However, I'm not sure "we" means every individual church must bring the gospel to every tribe, tongue and nation. "We" might mean the body as a whole.
The church where I worship is pretty much aiming our ministry at white middle-class suburbia, because that's what we know and where we are located. We do have and partner with ministries who work in other countries, and we do have a partnership with an inner-city church in Minneapolis whose focus is largely the urban population, because that's what they know, and where they're located.
If this inner-city church, who is pretty effective at reaching the surrounding community were to switch places with my church, which is pretty effective at reaching its surrounding community, I think both would wind up being less effective.
To paraphrase Paul's terms, If the whole Body were a suburban church, where would be the ministry to the inner city? Or if the suburban church said "I am not part of the Body because I don't minister to the inner city", who would minister to the suburbs? As it is, there are ministries to both the inner city AND the suburbs.
Having said all that, most of it was more concerned with culture than race, but there is a strong link between the two. There are blacks at my church and whites at the inner city church we partner with, but they are pretty much two different cultures preaching the same gospel in ways their local community can relate to.
Greeting from the southlands . You're certainly right about them redefining the churches . Accepting , ordaining even , queers ( and they need a label of disgust ) , interracial relations , murder , rape . Why , they even do away with His law . So how are we to determine right from wrong ? By our reasonings , our emotions ?
Law is discriminatory by definition . Whose version will we use to right our sins and heal our land ? One cannot serve 2 masters . They will stand up for one or deny the other .
1 John 3 : 4 .
... but you know how I feel about these things bro . Take care , Christ be with ya ( are ya fishing yet ? ).
Hey, Derifter. I somehow missed your comment about diversity.
I agree with you to a point. I don't think any church can target every demographic. It's just not possible. But again, that's more a a culture thing than it is a racial thing. So if your church is in the suburbs and the people you minister to best are suburban, then you guys should be trying to minister to white suburbanites, black suburbanites, Hispanic suburbanites, Asian suburbanites, etc.
What I feel like I see too much of is congregations surrounded by races in their community that they don't try to reach out to. If 30% of your community is black, it's probably wise to have a black person on your leadership team. Same for any other race.
There's something beautiful to me about seeing a lot of different races represented in worship before God.
Hey, Jeff-
Greetings back at ya. The lakes are open now (finally) but I haven't been out yet. I usually don't waste my time on panfish, and the season opener for Pike (which means Bass too, since I'm a catch-and-release man!) is this weekend. Which is also Mother's Day, so I won't be out then either. Anyhow...
Dude, I think you might have read more into my comments than what I intended to say. When you say, "them redefining the churches" who is "them"? I'm assuming gays?
I don't have a problem with interracial relations, and I'm not sure who is "accepting...murder and rape." I'll be honest, man, you kinda lost me there. And I don't see how law is discriminatory by definition. Maybe I'm a little slow today, but I don't get what you're saying there, either.
I sort of thought I knew how you feel about these things, but you said it more bluntly today than before, unless I misunderstood you.
So, have YOU got any fishing in?
Josh,
Your schedule must be loosening up some, man. Two recent posts, and now you're even commenting? You're starting to remind me of the old Space and Time Josh!
I should be happy that you agree with me to a point- That's more than I usually get out of you! Okay, what I meant by the race thing that turned out to be more of a culture thing, is that we should reach out to people, and not necessarily races. There are Spanish-speaking churches who reach out to that community better than we could ever hope to. They're certainly welcome to join us, but I assume most of the people in those congregations are there because they prefer it to our style. I prefer our style, because I can worship without spending much energy trying to fit in, or trying to understand Spanish.
All I'm saying is that if the need is already being met by another congregation, I don't see any sense in alienating the people who worship with us now.
Hey man ... guess I get frustrated at times and don't make myself real clear . Shoulda come here first instead of the youngsters perhaps , pretty wiped out . Roofing and painting the last couple weeks wearing the ol fella out !!
Well , I can tell we'll never see eye to eye ... there lies too unbridgable a gap betwizst our beliefs .
The preachers have redefined God , His Word and our requirements ?
What is sin ?
They've done away with His law , setting the criminal element loose to be handled by the edicts of man . Following our hearts , our emotions . " This is what God really meant ." How arrogant we've become . He's already set the terms . He doesn't change . The blood laws were nailed to the cross ... only His blood would now suffice .
Our people don't understand who the Bible is about , who it's written to , or who it's for . It's written plain enough to see but closed eyes will never perceive .
Where do you start with a mindset like that ?
Ya stone the messenger , that's always worked . For awhile .
I just wish folks would step outside of the box and get serious about their studies .
Take care man , hope the fishing does ya good . Got no time nowadays , but maybe 'fore it's said and done .
" The preachers have redefined God , His Word and our requirements ."
Shoulda been a statement , no question mark intended .
Can't say I envy you, roofing and painting. I guess I'd rather roof than paint, but I'd rather fish than roof.
" The preachers have redefined God , His Word and our requirements ."
Shoulda been a statement , no question mark intended .
If you're talking about preachers like at Glide, there's no doubt that they've redefined a lot of things. No question mark required ;)
Our people don't understand who the Bible is about , who it's written to , or who it's for .
I would think ABOUT both God and humanity. TO and FOR anyone who has ears to hear.
I just wish folks would step outside of the box and get serious about their studies .
Amen to that!
Peace and love.
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